I’m guessing that’s his crew’s name… This bike is borderline spooky. I like it though…I’d like to see more red. I’m not a big colored chain guy…but a red halflink would look cool here….or a red front hub. Ah hem…driveside next time por favor.
Sup Freshher aka Spokely Carmichael
May 29th, 2010 @12:49 pm
first off want one of these mystic rats(the name cinelli gave it)althought i didn’t realize they had braze on’s. second sloman its not a track bike not to break balls but braze on’s should be a clue. third luft really you’re hating on radial lacing?.
so that great non-track bike wasn’t cool enough for him so he stripped off the brakes.another friggin idiot.lemmings on bikes,but sooo coool man.and it still looks like a track frame to me,with braze ons for street use by non-morons. PS Sup,thanks for that link.Big C comes right after Big B for me.we can dream eh.cheers
Bike looks ok.Think you may have to invest in a wheel jig to keep the front true for any amount of years.Radial spokes for light weight and track use I would think. Not for crashing over miles of cobbles.Looks like a 32 hole front rim+hub. I think you can get 28s. I’m past the “shaving ounces” stage these days. I’d have a bike with a Lazeeboy for a saddle if I could find a clamp to hold it. Ha,ha.
And for curb hopping and suburban mashing radial lacing makes absolutely no sense for commuting. Yet another hipster trend with no basis in logic, like the ongoing bare bar debate.
I’m a proud owner of this bike and:
1st isn’t a track frame at all, it was created by cinelli (U know who cinelli is?) as a city fixed bike allowing bikers to permorm both alleycat and tricks (every tricks…)
2nd if u choose one of this u have to learn how to ride brakeless!! Brakes are anyway, in your hands so u can reinstall them on the base of your skills and kind of use! Use your head…
3rd isn’t a forum for fixed? well the pure fixed are brakeless and no one could called any other stupid!!
PS: the wheels are made for resisting to the most frequent city’s pavement! And fork is a Columbus Fork, similar to the one present in the cinelli vigorelli and MASH!
As far as I’ve ever known a no cross lacing is specifically for shorter spokes (less weight) but mostly for a stiffer wheel. Not having to cross over any other spokes means less flex in the spokes. I agree there is no real good reason to use them for commuting as opposed to a standard 3 cross wheel. I’ve never found them any easier or harder to true or keep true but there really doesn’t make enough of a difference to the average commuter. I think it comes down to a lot of what the fixed gear commuter world is right now; ‘I don’t know anything about this part but it looks cool so I’ll buy it.’
As for the bike; I know chinelli is just another company and they’re subject to changes of demand in the market like anyone else but I’m kind of sad to see them give in to the fixed commuter trend. The idea of companies making the bikes specifically to fit the trend kills the whole conversion part of the process. I guess the up side is that the true chinelli track that are not meant to be commuter bikes won’t be hacked into trend machines. I take back my original sentiment. Good diversion Chinelli!!!!
Sup Freshher aka Spokely Carmichael
May 31st, 2010 @8:57 pm
i actually like this better in the matte black not big on all white it’s getting some hate but i wouldn’t kick it outta bed.
no matter you skill level,someday your luck level will run out and some air head in a car will cut in or open a door or run a stop sign and then you will really use your head.or chain will drop,yada-yada-its your butt(head?)Darwin rules.And it is a track frame with braze ons added for commercial sale to the trendoids,who then remove the brakes anyway.duh.check the geometry ace.
Is this bike in Italy ? The stone in the street looks like Britain also. I am curious if it is hilly where you live and ride. Hopefully more European bikers will submit their rides on this site and the comments will be kind and not abrasive.
Sup Freshher aka Spokely Carmichael
May 31st, 2010 @11:08 pm
i don’t know slo geometry does’nt look particularly trackish. just looking at the rear triangle and the rake on those forks. don’t see what the big deal is?
@sloman:
U are right, but we improved our senses riding brakeless, therefore as from static trends as emerged: who ride brakeless have less risks then other bikers!! At least in Italy and Europe…in my side I hope that your auspices will not ever happen!!
@SbrankJoe – you’re just saying whatever you can and ignoring logic to justify fashion in place of common sense. First riding brakeless doesn’t improve your senses in any way that they couldn’t be improved by paying attention riding with brakes. Improving your senses is based off of what YOU do and not what your bike has or doesn’t have. The only thing that taking a brake off does is force you to ride slower in most cases. Second of all you ARE a huge risk to other bikers and not so much from the fact that you don’t have a brake as much as the combination of the fact that you don’t have one and you think that you’re not a risk. You are either not considering a worst case scenario where you need to stop immediately because of unforeseeable circumstances or you are considering it and judging that you are willing to take the risk even though people around you may be hurt. It’s more than just your health and well being out there at risk.
The big underlying problem I have with your statement is you ignoring the very very obvious; just because you have a brake on your bike does not mean you have to use it all of the time. You can do everything you want on a fixed gear and not touch the brake but still have it there for when that unforeseen circumstance does happen and the brake could save your life or lives of people around you or at the very least just save you from getting hurt in general. You’re taking it off not for any special or nobel reason. You’re taking the brake off because the TREND right now is to ride without one. When it comes down to it you’ll eventually either learn down the line that it makes sense to put a brake on your bike for both safety and over all body health reasons or you’ll fizzle out and find the next thing to move on so I don’t really care what you do. Just don’t try to make it seem like you’re doing something special by taking brakes off of your bike and spread your bad habits to other younger cyclists that don’t know any better yet.
@cs Thank you for writing in complete sentences and using proper grammar and punctuation. Its good manners; plain and simple. Now about riding brakeless. First of all, it makes the bike look cool and implies that the owner has really good skills (even if he doesn’t). Second, if its for a track then its not up for discussion (dems da rules). Thirdly, the zen-excuse is fine. Next, try a blindfold and some earplugs (Tommy can you hear me?) but make sure you’re in a parking lot (or, better yet an airfield) far away from anyone or anything you might harm. Otherwise, if you bump into anyone (which you will) tell them that the brake was stolen and you were on your way to the brake store. That way you won’t look like a complete idiot. In the mean time you can use the braze ons as a place to store a tourniquet. Not so much for you but for the pedestrian you will inevitably mow down. Do you know first aid?
Huh…so “mystic rats” is what Cinelli calls this frame? Weird name. I wonder where that came from. I’ve always thought of Cinelli as a classy, classic company.
I ride brakeless, and I will say I don’t do it to look cool. Really a wire and a lever will not make a fucking difference, plenty of great looking bikes have brakes on them. It makes me feel like a better rider, and actually does make me more causious. My friends with breaks ride through reds like they are greens, and get hit because they think the brake can save them. I still go very fast on my bike, but just slow down when I see a yellow light.
@ surfadude5543 All kidding aside, I see riders out there on the mean streets riding brakeless. Some blow me away with voodoo, mad-skills. Humbling to be sure; as they spin circle around my sorry ass. You make a good point, any contingency has the potential to create a false sense of security. Helmets are a good example. They make a lot of sense on motorcycles but I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t make much difference on a bicycle. Do I feel better with a helmet? Or do I feel better without one? Like you; “feeling” safer brakeless or helmet-less will effect my safety in a positive way. If only because it effects my attitude and desire to live based on highly developed abilities not a reliance on a contingency. But on some days I feel differently and put on a helmet. Usually on a day when I know I’ll be distracted. I am human after all, even if helmets are decidedly un-cool. Another example: there are, in fact, less car-related fatalities since airbags. Why? is it the technology? Or, are there many other factors? With Fixed gear, brake or brakeless; the problem is no hard data. Still, my anecdotal evidence tells me that (on an unpredictable roadway) a brake is more than just a good idea. Too many brakeless-masters that I know, with voodoo mad-skills in need of facial reconstruction, or the loss of a foot. Too late to admit an addiction to adrenalin that impeded common sense.
Hey JQ. How does your above coment relate to the bike above apart from in the general discussion on brakelessness? See how easy it is to get drawn in and go off on a tangent? It happens to all of us. I do aplaud of your comment, by the way. I never go brakeless, but even so. I know the nipples on the ends of cables can fail. My ex brother in law went through the rear window of a car as a result of it. Incidents like that are always in the back of MY mind. Brakeless means you only have the chain to slow down with. I’ve broken chains before. Always glad I had a brake as back up. Cheers. p.s. Above bike quite cool. I’d put a brake on it though. p.p.s Chinelli make much better looking bikes than this. Oh, SO MUCH better looking bikes.
The above bike doesn’t have a brake in spite of braze-ons. Much of the bike’s discussion was about that fact. If you read the chain above you will see that but feel free to chime in and change the subject. Hows that message board you NEED to go start coming?
Agreed, the whole site is an exchange of ideas and a message board. We pick up knowledge by reading and sharing. Cinelli or Raleigh catalogs are not message boards .
My “emergency” brake has saved my ass a few times. I don’t care how skilled or careful you are…there are a lot of bad drivers and no amount of skill or jedi powers is gonna change that. Brakes? Helmets? Looking cool? You know what doesn’t look cool?…..smashing into some jack ass’ car door because they didn’t see you, pulled out and you couldn’t stop in time…….or a big dent in your head. Helmets ARE cool….just not a lot of’m look cool. JQ, you’re kidding right?…about a helmet not helping on a bike. Im pretty sure if I hit my head goin 30mph it’s gonna suck…a lot. And way worse without a helmet. ‘bern’ makes nice helmets….or even a BMX/Skatebrd helmet like a Bell Faction or Sixsixone look cool and aren’t too expensive.
Read the thread. Been following it. I’m a believer that brakeless is suited to the track only. Anyone who wants to ride without brakes on the public highway is welcome to it. Plenty of deserving people out there need donors. And as cars seem to be getting safer. The hospitals have to find them somewhere. In the U.K it is law that a bycicle on the road must have two independant methods of stopping.i.e. two brakes or a front brake and fixed rear sprocket. I don’t earn enough to pay a fine, or pay for extensive dental work, so I ride a brake bound sissy bike. Riding fixed I can choose to not use my brake and regulate my speed using only my legs. Downhill I’d rather spin though and scrub the excess speed off when I need to using a brake. Just makes more sense to me. That’s all. Sorry. Did I go off subject there at all, or do I have to mention the above trendy piece of kit again?
A Helmet is something I generally wear on a bike unless it is too hot. I have thought about putting a front brake on my bike, I actually didn’t have one screw and that is what prevented me from it. There are certain cituations where I would LIKE a brake, but not NEED a brake. When going down a hill sure it would be nice to bomb it and stop with a back brake at the end, but what if something goes wrong with that break, yes the same can be argued with a chain. What if your wire nipple comes loose? You are screwed. My friend rides with horrible brakes that don’t do anything and no clips. He is more cautious because of this. Same principals apply to someone riding brakeless. If you have drops in the first place like one with a track bike should, you don’t even see any part of the brake really. Some brakes I feel actually add to the look of the bike. Okay but back on topic when I ride my bike I am rarely riding in crowned insane avenues, I ride with the traffic always paying as much attention as I can. I love riding on the river specifically designated bike lanes where no cars can get near etc. Riding brakeless requires skill.
Blargh. Riding brakeless does require skill but so does riding with brakes. Riding a bike period requires skills so using that as an argument for riding brakeless is a moot point. Also you cannot put a brake cable and a bike chain in the same category because they are two different things built for two different purposes. Brake cables are made specifically for the purpose of stopping a bike. Chains are made specifically for propelling the bike. Don’t fool yourself by thinking that the chain was designed in any way to be used as a stopping mechanism. A chain has so many potential fail points just in the way the links are assembled not to mention that if you get enough flex in the frame it could hop off the gears. Just because YOU use a chain to stop does not mean it was meant to do that task. Brake cables are tightly coiled strands of steel that are clamped down into the brake. It’s made that way specifically to add strength to the overall cable and so that if several strands break you still have the ability to stop. If any one pin snaps in the chain your whole brake and drive system is gone. They are in no way the same thing. Also you cannot base all brake users on your friends that use horrible brakes because they’re being just as irresponsible as brakeless riders are. You can justify it any way you want but your logic is always going to be flawed. If you can’t develop skill in riding bikes unless you take your brakes off then you don’t really know how to ride bikes AND you’re just showing how little you really think and/or care about the safety and lives of people around you.
jesus, how many times are you brakeless guys going to try to justify how much safer riding brakeless is? “my friends with brakes ride through red lights and get hit by cars.” then you’re friends are idiots, like you are for making this stupid point. logical people follow traffic signals and take the proper precautions such as having a brake. i have a brake and stop for red lights. and so should you.
Hahaha…for real. Saying you’re safer or a better rider by riding brakeless because it makes you more cautious doesn’t make sense. By that logic I’ll be a better and safer driver by not wearing my seatbelt. That’s it….I’m removing all seatbelts and airbags from my car.
i’ll be safer in my car by running red lights, closing my eyes, driving on the left, laying on my horn, putting in ear plugs, and then climbing out on the hood and posing in arabesque. how’s that for safer, surfadude?
Sup Freshher aka Spokely Carmichael
June 1st, 2010 @11:34 pm
first off ng don’t know if you saw my post but thanks for the look out on the alter, luft same cool mix posted one for you as well.
Sup Freshher aka Spokely Carmichael
June 1st, 2010 @11:56 pm
now for this brakless debate. i ride brakless not all the time but i do and my riding stlye defintley changes when i do ride “safer” in a way by staying more focused, riding slower and not taking chances. but you guys are right that things happen beyond your control but, even in those situations brakes MAY not save you. at slower speeds i can stop w/o brakes as abrubtly as i can with them. i run red lights everyday but, not w/o being aware of traffic. i was riding w/ a friend who isn’t used to city riding and thought it was more dangerous to ride in between cars in traffic when it’s the contrary thats where you don’t get doored. it boils down to recklessness vs. knowledge and skill level.
brakeless track bikes were made for the velodrome, where there was a logical reason for NOT having brakes on a bike.
but i think once you take that type of bike off the monotonous and safe environment of the velodrome and into the street where there is so much more going on (its like an obstacle course in comparison) i think that logical reason for not having brakes becomes null and void.
many people were smart enough to put a brake on the track bike once they made that switch in environments….
i’m with sup on this one. if you’re aware and in tune with your surroundings go ahead and ride brakeless, but don’t be a cocky bastard and say it’s safer, it boils down to logic and makes no sense to say that.
First of all who say idiot or stupid to other person sometime is a person without arguments!
Brakeless or not this is a dilemma! Well…for bikers or pedrestians the risck are similar causing by the car and the stupid behavior riding or driving ect ect…we must respect the street signal! Brakes or not in case of…less change!!
Has anybody seen pictures of the hole in the Gulf of Mexico? Brakes (of any sort) seem to have the most meaning after the fact. If you go on 100 incident-free rides without a brake –you know what your talking about. Just don’t go on the 101st. No, its not about luck or fate. Its about taking foolish chances verses a calculated risk. This whole argument (either way) doesn’t really have much merit. Its 100% true. You don’t need brakes if you’re already stopped. If you are without brakes, in motion and can change that without incident then you also do not need brakes. If you ride like an asshole (with) or without brakes then you are an asshole. Assholes are assholes. Please know that finding out you’re an asshole because you thought riding brakeless was a good thing while waiting in the emergency room is no excuse. Self-aware assholes that knew better before the realization are the worst kind (stupid asshole?). If you have it in your head that brakeless equals safest than you might want to consider a course on risk assessment. Or, perhaps a class in logic. That said; it is entirely possible for someone to conversely think that a brake gives them permission to ride like an asshole. However, just because its possible does not make it a decent premise for your argument. ipso facto.
JQ, yes I have seen the Guatemalan sink hole, amazing . Thanks for the concise description of assholes., it ties right in with the sinkhole. Arizona needs such a sinkhole at the border. ! I have a front brake but fly thru red lights and stop signs after looking in 3 directions, does that qualify me as an asshole? If I have both brakes I will be an asshole according to some on this site. at 148 lbs. I need only the front on fixed wheel unless the anchor fails on the cable wire as Flinty points out. The heavy guys need to diet and need front and rear brakes to stop the cargo. My x thinks I am an asshole but that does not count. ( take out the o and you get the picture ) thanks
Sup Freshher aka Spokely Carmichael
June 3rd, 2010 @5:01 pm
I’m not qualified to diagnose your asshole-status based on a sketchy, biased self-description. It feels like a loaded question. I don’t have to bite. You don’t really fly through intersections. Do you? Sometimes it feels like your flying but thats just a figure of speech. Correct? I think what I was getting at was pretty clear. Riding sans-brake does not (by definition) qualify you for a Darwin award. Riding like an asshole (with or without s brake) does. I have a single speed with only a front brake. So far I’ve only end-over-ed one time. That was enough. And yes, I felt like an asshole. I’m also pretty sure I WAS an asshole too. If this makes you feel better. I can come off a bit smug. This business about having “the right stuff” is romantic self-deception. Just because you ride brakeless and so far haven’t had… oh hell…. please read my above comment.
Yes Luftie and for two years you rode brakeless ! The Raleigh Super Grand Prick was shown brakeless. Por Que ?
Sup Freshher aka Spokely Carmichael
June 3rd, 2010 @9:44 pm
my post was meant more in a general smartass sense i agree w/ points on both sides and to be honest riding brakless for me is as much of an elitist thing as a zen state. but jq living in ny you see very competent cyclist riding brakless everyday if there were that many reckless brakless hipsters the streets of williamsburg would be littered with them like discarded dajurm cigarette butts.
I ride with a brake. When I put the rack on Morris I also put the rear brake back on. Simply because I knew the bike would be used to carry stuff and weigh more and take more stopping. You don’t see 8 wheelers hauling ass with brakes from a tiny Honda, after all. So I guess it made sense. Especially as I no longer have legs like Superman. Getting old sucks big time. There are some decent hills near here. I like going down them fast(or as fast as I can spin a 55inch gear.That’s what I’m running at the mo. 28.2mph yesterday!)Not all of them level out before coming to a junction or tight bend. There is one I can think of that hits a junction with a church wall opposite.I can hit 45 on a geared bike on that hill. On fixed I take it a lot slower, using the brake to counteract the affect of gravity on my 10st8lb as I’m not ready to join the folks in the graveyard yet. I use a brake and occasionally ride like an asshole(mainly off road)I stop for red lights coz Cambridge wasn’t built for cars and all the drivers are homicidal and confused and, or lost. I’ve given up shouting at foreign students going round roundabouts the wrong way and generally being useless pond life. Darwins equations didn’t encompass human kindness and forebearance. That’s the only reason half these guys make it as far as getting a degree. Damn I’m rambling again. BRAKES. Your choice. Up to you. Just don’t crash in the back of me while I’m waiting for the lights to change. You’ll find out why people say I’m like a weasel. Small and nasty.
Flinty, you should teach Philosophy, I wish more people had your common sense and powers of observation. You remind me of Benjamin Franklin. Poor Richard’s Almanac style.
I cant believe I have to spell this out.
Thinking you know what you’re doing only to find out you don’t –taking a few pedestrians down in the process = stupid asshole.
Possessing some degree of skill and bragging about it while flying in the face of logic. Logic that only become significant after the fact –counter-argued with a change of subject = smug asshole. (see: scum bag)
Pretending that fashion or sex-appeal has not informed ones reckless behavior = major asshole
Using self-deprecating examples of foolish behavior as evidence of hard won expertise = douche bag
Developing an argument using narrow, circumstantial evidence as incontrovertible facts = jackass
Poser who rambles on about gear ratio or the quality of the bits = faggot
Snotty quips about the color scheme or angle of the seat = Faggot who can lick my balls
Where is Eric and Snipertoe when you need them. This site is getting boring.
again hard to argue with the man.but let it go JQ.never argue with a fool,people might get confused.The too cool for brake crowd is also too dumb to change.Use your energy to pedal.enjoy
Well said Sloman, it’s like yelling at a teen to pick up their crap off the floor and clean some dishes and put them away. JQ you must be a lawyer. enjoy as Sloman would say.
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67 Comments Received
May 29th, 2010 @7:26 am
very nice track frame wasted.thats all folks
May 29th, 2010 @7:52 am
Agreed. It’s okay. I like your track grips. But not radial lacing or brakelessness.
May 29th, 2010 @10:28 am
Not sure about the name, but I like the bike.
May 29th, 2010 @11:05 am
I’m guessing that’s his crew’s name… This bike is borderline spooky. I like it though…I’d like to see more red. I’m not a big colored chain guy…but a red halflink would look cool here….or a red front hub. Ah hem…driveside next time por favor.
May 29th, 2010 @12:20 pm
He’s probably a lefty.
May 29th, 2010 @12:23 pm
whole new meaning of ghost ridin’ the whip.
May 29th, 2010 @12:49 pm
first off want one of these mystic rats(the name cinelli gave it)althought i didn’t realize they had braze on’s. second sloman its not a track bike not to break balls but braze on’s should be a clue. third luft really you’re hating on radial lacing?.
May 29th, 2010 @2:28 pm
track frame.track ends.Single speed.whatever dipo.still a waste
May 29th, 2010 @2:58 pm
that looks like ” del pasado 2010 ” frame isnt?
May 29th, 2010 @3:15 pm
http://www.cinelli-usa.com/10_bikes/complete_mystic_rats.html
May 29th, 2010 @3:55 pm
so that great non-track bike wasn’t cool enough for him so he stripped off the brakes.another friggin idiot.lemmings on bikes,but sooo coool man.and it still looks like a track frame to me,with braze ons for street use by non-morons. PS Sup,thanks for that link.Big C comes right after Big B for me.we can dream eh.cheers
May 29th, 2010 @4:39 pm
this is nice but for $1000 dollars the custom colors and components with another build are endless. out of my price range. enjoy.
May 29th, 2010 @7:20 pm
I don’t like asymmetry. And supposedly it’s a less durable lacing than 3x.
May 29th, 2010 @7:30 pm
did’nt realize there was a issue w/ durability guess that why you don’t see it on mtb. i stand corrected.
May 29th, 2010 @7:35 pm
it can be as durable when done right,useing correct gauge spokes,thread lok and not overly high tensions.As usual the opperative word is right.
May 29th, 2010 @7:36 pm
Bike looks ok.Think you may have to invest in a wheel jig to keep the front true for any amount of years.Radial spokes for light weight and track use I would think. Not for crashing over miles of cobbles.Looks like a 32 hole front rim+hub. I think you can get 28s. I’m past the “shaving ounces” stage these days. I’d have a bike with a Lazeeboy for a saddle if I could find a clamp to hold it. Ha,ha.
May 29th, 2010 @10:41 pm
And for curb hopping and suburban mashing radial lacing makes absolutely no sense for commuting. Yet another hipster trend with no basis in logic, like the ongoing bare bar debate.
May 31st, 2010 @12:25 am
I’m a proud owner of this bike and:
1st isn’t a track frame at all, it was created by cinelli (U know who cinelli is?) as a city fixed bike allowing bikers to permorm both alleycat and tricks (every tricks…)
2nd if u choose one of this u have to learn how to ride brakeless!! Brakes are anyway, in your hands so u can reinstall them on the base of your skills and kind of use! Use your head…
3rd isn’t a forum for fixed? well the pure fixed are brakeless and no one could called any other stupid!!
PS: the wheels are made for resisting to the most frequent city’s pavement! And fork is a Columbus Fork, similar to the one present in the cinelli vigorelli and MASH!
May 31st, 2010 @6:38 am
As far as I’ve ever known a no cross lacing is specifically for shorter spokes (less weight) but mostly for a stiffer wheel. Not having to cross over any other spokes means less flex in the spokes. I agree there is no real good reason to use them for commuting as opposed to a standard 3 cross wheel. I’ve never found them any easier or harder to true or keep true but there really doesn’t make enough of a difference to the average commuter. I think it comes down to a lot of what the fixed gear commuter world is right now; ‘I don’t know anything about this part but it looks cool so I’ll buy it.’
As for the bike; I know chinelli is just another company and they’re subject to changes of demand in the market like anyone else but I’m kind of sad to see them give in to the fixed commuter trend. The idea of companies making the bikes specifically to fit the trend kills the whole conversion part of the process. I guess the up side is that the true chinelli track that are not meant to be commuter bikes won’t be hacked into trend machines. I take back my original sentiment. Good diversion Chinelli!!!!
May 31st, 2010 @8:57 pm
i actually like this better in the matte black not big on all white it’s getting some hate but i wouldn’t kick it outta bed.
May 31st, 2010 @9:17 pm
no matter you skill level,someday your luck level will run out and some air head in a car will cut in or open a door or run a stop sign and then you will really use your head.or chain will drop,yada-yada-its your butt(head?)Darwin rules.And it is a track frame with braze ons added for commercial sale to the trendoids,who then remove the brakes anyway.duh.check the geometry ace.
May 31st, 2010 @9:26 pm
Is this bike in Italy ? The stone in the street looks like Britain also. I am curious if it is hilly where you live and ride. Hopefully more European bikers will submit their rides on this site and the comments will be kind and not abrasive.
May 31st, 2010 @11:08 pm
i don’t know slo geometry does’nt look particularly trackish. just looking at the rear triangle and the rake on those forks. don’t see what the big deal is?
June 1st, 2010 @12:40 am
@sloman:
U are right, but we improved our senses riding brakeless, therefore as from static trends as emerged: who ride brakeless have less risks then other bikers!! At least in Italy and Europe…in my side I hope that your auspices will not ever happen!!
;p
June 1st, 2010 @12:44 am
yep the bike here was in Rome for a great alleycat!
June 1st, 2010 @12:54 am
sbrankjoe,brakeless does keep you sharp and alert for sure.hope you road continues to be auspices free.cio.
June 1st, 2010 @4:24 am
@SbrankJoe – you’re just saying whatever you can and ignoring logic to justify fashion in place of common sense. First riding brakeless doesn’t improve your senses in any way that they couldn’t be improved by paying attention riding with brakes. Improving your senses is based off of what YOU do and not what your bike has or doesn’t have. The only thing that taking a brake off does is force you to ride slower in most cases. Second of all you ARE a huge risk to other bikers and not so much from the fact that you don’t have a brake as much as the combination of the fact that you don’t have one and you think that you’re not a risk. You are either not considering a worst case scenario where you need to stop immediately because of unforeseeable circumstances or you are considering it and judging that you are willing to take the risk even though people around you may be hurt. It’s more than just your health and well being out there at risk.
The big underlying problem I have with your statement is you ignoring the very very obvious; just because you have a brake on your bike does not mean you have to use it all of the time. You can do everything you want on a fixed gear and not touch the brake but still have it there for when that unforeseen circumstance does happen and the brake could save your life or lives of people around you or at the very least just save you from getting hurt in general. You’re taking it off not for any special or nobel reason. You’re taking the brake off because the TREND right now is to ride without one. When it comes down to it you’ll eventually either learn down the line that it makes sense to put a brake on your bike for both safety and over all body health reasons or you’ll fizzle out and find the next thing to move on so I don’t really care what you do. Just don’t try to make it seem like you’re doing something special by taking brakes off of your bike and spread your bad habits to other younger cyclists that don’t know any better yet.
June 1st, 2010 @5:18 am
@cs Thank you for writing in complete sentences and using proper grammar and punctuation. Its good manners; plain and simple. Now about riding brakeless. First of all, it makes the bike look cool and implies that the owner has really good skills (even if he doesn’t). Second, if its for a track then its not up for discussion (dems da rules). Thirdly, the zen-excuse is fine. Next, try a blindfold and some earplugs (Tommy can you hear me?) but make sure you’re in a parking lot (or, better yet an airfield) far away from anyone or anything you might harm. Otherwise, if you bump into anyone (which you will) tell them that the brake was stolen and you were on your way to the brake store. That way you won’t look like a complete idiot. In the mean time you can use the braze ons as a place to store a tourniquet. Not so much for you but for the pedestrian you will inevitably mow down. Do you know first aid?
June 1st, 2010 @5:41 am
LOL!!!!
June 1st, 2010 @11:48 am
Huh…so “mystic rats” is what Cinelli calls this frame? Weird name. I wonder where that came from. I’ve always thought of Cinelli as a classy, classic company.
June 1st, 2010 @11:51 am
I don’t know about Mystic Rats but some of the other names are Hendrix tunes.Is there something in their water?Cool
June 1st, 2010 @11:58 am
Brakeless is less risky. Wow you’re an idiot.
June 1st, 2010 @3:12 pm
I ride brakeless, and I will say I don’t do it to look cool. Really a wire and a lever will not make a fucking difference, plenty of great looking bikes have brakes on them. It makes me feel like a better rider, and actually does make me more causious. My friends with breaks ride through reds like they are greens, and get hit because they think the brake can save them. I still go very fast on my bike, but just slow down when I see a yellow light.
June 1st, 2010 @4:09 pm
Talk to a stone , same response.
June 1st, 2010 @5:51 pm
@ surfadude5543 All kidding aside, I see riders out there on the mean streets riding brakeless. Some blow me away with voodoo, mad-skills. Humbling to be sure; as they spin circle around my sorry ass. You make a good point, any contingency has the potential to create a false sense of security. Helmets are a good example. They make a lot of sense on motorcycles but I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t make much difference on a bicycle. Do I feel better with a helmet? Or do I feel better without one? Like you; “feeling” safer brakeless or helmet-less will effect my safety in a positive way. If only because it effects my attitude and desire to live based on highly developed abilities not a reliance on a contingency. But on some days I feel differently and put on a helmet. Usually on a day when I know I’ll be distracted. I am human after all, even if helmets are decidedly un-cool. Another example: there are, in fact, less car-related fatalities since airbags. Why? is it the technology? Or, are there many other factors? With Fixed gear, brake or brakeless; the problem is no hard data. Still, my anecdotal evidence tells me that (on an unpredictable roadway) a brake is more than just a good idea. Too many brakeless-masters that I know, with voodoo mad-skills in need of facial reconstruction, or the loss of a foot. Too late to admit an addiction to adrenalin that impeded common sense.
June 1st, 2010 @6:25 pm
Hey JQ. How does your above coment relate to the bike above apart from in the general discussion on brakelessness? See how easy it is to get drawn in and go off on a tangent? It happens to all of us. I do aplaud of your comment, by the way. I never go brakeless, but even so. I know the nipples on the ends of cables can fail. My ex brother in law went through the rear window of a car as a result of it. Incidents like that are always in the back of MY mind. Brakeless means you only have the chain to slow down with. I’ve broken chains before. Always glad I had a brake as back up. Cheers. p.s. Above bike quite cool. I’d put a brake on it though. p.p.s Chinelli make much better looking bikes than this. Oh, SO MUCH better looking bikes.
June 1st, 2010 @6:40 pm
The above bike doesn’t have a brake in spite of braze-ons. Much of the bike’s discussion was about that fact. If you read the chain above you will see that but feel free to chime in and change the subject. Hows that message board you NEED to go start coming?
June 1st, 2010 @6:44 pm
Agreed, the whole site is an exchange of ideas and a message board. We pick up knowledge by reading and sharing. Cinelli or Raleigh catalogs are not message boards .
June 1st, 2010 @6:46 pm
My “emergency” brake has saved my ass a few times. I don’t care how skilled or careful you are…there are a lot of bad drivers and no amount of skill or jedi powers is gonna change that. Brakes? Helmets? Looking cool? You know what doesn’t look cool?…..smashing into some jack ass’ car door because they didn’t see you, pulled out and you couldn’t stop in time…….or a big dent in your head. Helmets ARE cool….just not a lot of’m look cool. JQ, you’re kidding right?…about a helmet not helping on a bike. Im pretty sure if I hit my head goin 30mph it’s gonna suck…a lot. And way worse without a helmet. ‘bern’ makes nice helmets….or even a BMX/Skatebrd helmet like a Bell Faction or Sixsixone look cool and aren’t too expensive.
June 1st, 2010 @6:56 pm
Read the thread. Been following it. I’m a believer that brakeless is suited to the track only. Anyone who wants to ride without brakes on the public highway is welcome to it. Plenty of deserving people out there need donors. And as cars seem to be getting safer. The hospitals have to find them somewhere. In the U.K it is law that a bycicle on the road must have two independant methods of stopping.i.e. two brakes or a front brake and fixed rear sprocket. I don’t earn enough to pay a fine, or pay for extensive dental work, so I ride a brake bound sissy bike. Riding fixed I can choose to not use my brake and regulate my speed using only my legs. Downhill I’d rather spin though and scrub the excess speed off when I need to using a brake. Just makes more sense to me. That’s all. Sorry. Did I go off subject there at all, or do I have to mention the above trendy piece of kit again?
June 1st, 2010 @7:25 pm
A Helmet is something I generally wear on a bike unless it is too hot. I have thought about putting a front brake on my bike, I actually didn’t have one screw and that is what prevented me from it. There are certain cituations where I would LIKE a brake, but not NEED a brake. When going down a hill sure it would be nice to bomb it and stop with a back brake at the end, but what if something goes wrong with that break, yes the same can be argued with a chain. What if your wire nipple comes loose? You are screwed. My friend rides with horrible brakes that don’t do anything and no clips. He is more cautious because of this. Same principals apply to someone riding brakeless. If you have drops in the first place like one with a track bike should, you don’t even see any part of the brake really. Some brakes I feel actually add to the look of the bike. Okay but back on topic when I ride my bike I am rarely riding in crowned insane avenues, I ride with the traffic always paying as much attention as I can. I love riding on the river specifically designated bike lanes where no cars can get near etc. Riding brakeless requires skill.
June 1st, 2010 @9:49 pm
Blargh. Riding brakeless does require skill but so does riding with brakes. Riding a bike period requires skills so using that as an argument for riding brakeless is a moot point. Also you cannot put a brake cable and a bike chain in the same category because they are two different things built for two different purposes. Brake cables are made specifically for the purpose of stopping a bike. Chains are made specifically for propelling the bike. Don’t fool yourself by thinking that the chain was designed in any way to be used as a stopping mechanism. A chain has so many potential fail points just in the way the links are assembled not to mention that if you get enough flex in the frame it could hop off the gears. Just because YOU use a chain to stop does not mean it was meant to do that task. Brake cables are tightly coiled strands of steel that are clamped down into the brake. It’s made that way specifically to add strength to the overall cable and so that if several strands break you still have the ability to stop. If any one pin snaps in the chain your whole brake and drive system is gone. They are in no way the same thing. Also you cannot base all brake users on your friends that use horrible brakes because they’re being just as irresponsible as brakeless riders are. You can justify it any way you want but your logic is always going to be flawed. If you can’t develop skill in riding bikes unless you take your brakes off then you don’t really know how to ride bikes AND you’re just showing how little you really think and/or care about the safety and lives of people around you.
June 1st, 2010 @10:22 pm
jesus, how many times are you brakeless guys going to try to justify how much safer riding brakeless is? “my friends with brakes ride through red lights and get hit by cars.” then you’re friends are idiots, like you are for making this stupid point. logical people follow traffic signals and take the proper precautions such as having a brake. i have a brake and stop for red lights. and so should you.
June 1st, 2010 @10:37 pm
Hahaha…for real. Saying you’re safer or a better rider by riding brakeless because it makes you more cautious doesn’t make sense. By that logic I’ll be a better and safer driver by not wearing my seatbelt. That’s it….I’m removing all seatbelts and airbags from my car.
June 1st, 2010 @10:56 pm
i’ll be safer in my car by running red lights, closing my eyes, driving on the left, laying on my horn, putting in ear plugs, and then climbing out on the hood and posing in arabesque. how’s that for safer, surfadude?
June 1st, 2010 @11:34 pm
first off ng don’t know if you saw my post but thanks for the look out on the alter, luft same cool mix posted one for you as well.
June 1st, 2010 @11:56 pm
now for this brakless debate. i ride brakless not all the time but i do and my riding stlye defintley changes when i do ride “safer” in a way by staying more focused, riding slower and not taking chances. but you guys are right that things happen beyond your control but, even in those situations brakes MAY not save you. at slower speeds i can stop w/o brakes as abrubtly as i can with them. i run red lights everyday but, not w/o being aware of traffic. i was riding w/ a friend who isn’t used to city riding and thought it was more dangerous to ride in between cars in traffic when it’s the contrary thats where you don’t get doored. it boils down to recklessness vs. knowledge and skill level.
June 2nd, 2010 @8:39 am
i will jump on the brake argument bandwagon lol
brakeless track bikes were made for the velodrome, where there was a logical reason for NOT having brakes on a bike.
but i think once you take that type of bike off the monotonous and safe environment of the velodrome and into the street where there is so much more going on (its like an obstacle course in comparison) i think that logical reason for not having brakes becomes null and void.
many people were smart enough to put a brake on the track bike once they made that switch in environments….
June 2nd, 2010 @11:01 pm
i’m with sup on this one. if you’re aware and in tune with your surroundings go ahead and ride brakeless, but don’t be a cocky bastard and say it’s safer, it boils down to logic and makes no sense to say that.
June 3rd, 2010 @2:13 am
First of all who say idiot or stupid to other person sometime is a person without arguments!
Brakeless or not this is a dilemma! Well…for bikers or pedrestians the risck are similar causing by the car and the stupid behavior riding or driving ect ect…we must respect the street signal! Brakes or not in case of…less change!!
June 3rd, 2010 @3:19 am
Has anybody seen pictures of the hole in the Gulf of Mexico? Brakes (of any sort) seem to have the most meaning after the fact. If you go on 100 incident-free rides without a brake –you know what your talking about. Just don’t go on the 101st. No, its not about luck or fate. Its about taking foolish chances verses a calculated risk. This whole argument (either way) doesn’t really have much merit. Its 100% true. You don’t need brakes if you’re already stopped. If you are without brakes, in motion and can change that without incident then you also do not need brakes. If you ride like an asshole (with) or without brakes then you are an asshole. Assholes are assholes. Please know that finding out you’re an asshole because you thought riding brakeless was a good thing while waiting in the emergency room is no excuse. Self-aware assholes that knew better before the realization are the worst kind (stupid asshole?). If you have it in your head that brakeless equals safest than you might want to consider a course on risk assessment. Or, perhaps a class in logic. That said; it is entirely possible for someone to conversely think that a brake gives them permission to ride like an asshole. However, just because its possible does not make it a decent premise for your argument. ipso facto.
June 3rd, 2010 @4:24 am
might be the final word.logic wins.
June 3rd, 2010 @10:08 am
JQ, yes I have seen the Guatemalan sink hole, amazing . Thanks for the concise description of assholes., it ties right in with the sinkhole. Arizona needs such a sinkhole at the border. ! I have a front brake but fly thru red lights and stop signs after looking in 3 directions, does that qualify me as an asshole? If I have both brakes I will be an asshole according to some on this site. at 148 lbs. I need only the front on fixed wheel unless the anchor fails on the cable wire as Flinty points out. The heavy guys need to diet and need front and rear brakes to stop the cargo. My x thinks I am an asshole but that does not count. ( take out the o and you get the picture ) thanks
June 3rd, 2010 @5:01 pm
my name is sup and i’m an asshole.
June 3rd, 2010 @5:23 pm
I’m not qualified to diagnose your asshole-status based on a sketchy, biased self-description. It feels like a loaded question. I don’t have to bite. You don’t really fly through intersections. Do you? Sometimes it feels like your flying but thats just a figure of speech. Correct? I think what I was getting at was pretty clear. Riding sans-brake does not (by definition) qualify you for a Darwin award. Riding like an asshole (with or without s brake) does. I have a single speed with only a front brake. So far I’ve only end-over-ed one time. That was enough. And yes, I felt like an asshole. I’m also pretty sure I WAS an asshole too. If this makes you feel better. I can come off a bit smug. This business about having “the right stuff” is romantic self-deception. Just because you ride brakeless and so far haven’t had… oh hell…. please read my above comment.
June 3rd, 2010 @7:04 pm
asshole theory? this debate has gone too far. my name is luft and i use a brake.
June 3rd, 2010 @8:22 pm
Yes Luftie and for two years you rode brakeless ! The Raleigh Super Grand Prick was shown brakeless. Por Que ?
June 3rd, 2010 @9:44 pm
my post was meant more in a general smartass sense i agree w/ points on both sides and to be honest riding brakless for me is as much of an elitist thing as a zen state. but jq living in ny you see very competent cyclist riding brakless everyday if there were that many reckless brakless hipsters the streets of williamsburg would be littered with them like discarded dajurm cigarette butts.
June 4th, 2010 @12:40 am
I ride with a brake. When I put the rack on Morris I also put the rear brake back on. Simply because I knew the bike would be used to carry stuff and weigh more and take more stopping. You don’t see 8 wheelers hauling ass with brakes from a tiny Honda, after all. So I guess it made sense. Especially as I no longer have legs like Superman. Getting old sucks big time. There are some decent hills near here. I like going down them fast(or as fast as I can spin a 55inch gear.That’s what I’m running at the mo. 28.2mph yesterday!)Not all of them level out before coming to a junction or tight bend. There is one I can think of that hits a junction with a church wall opposite.I can hit 45 on a geared bike on that hill. On fixed I take it a lot slower, using the brake to counteract the affect of gravity on my 10st8lb as I’m not ready to join the folks in the graveyard yet. I use a brake and occasionally ride like an asshole(mainly off road)I stop for red lights coz Cambridge wasn’t built for cars and all the drivers are homicidal and confused and, or lost. I’ve given up shouting at foreign students going round roundabouts the wrong way and generally being useless pond life. Darwins equations didn’t encompass human kindness and forebearance. That’s the only reason half these guys make it as far as getting a degree. Damn I’m rambling again. BRAKES. Your choice. Up to you. Just don’t crash in the back of me while I’m waiting for the lights to change. You’ll find out why people say I’m like a weasel. Small and nasty.
June 4th, 2010 @7:36 am
Flinty, you should teach Philosophy, I wish more people had your common sense and powers of observation. You remind me of Benjamin Franklin. Poor Richard’s Almanac style.
June 5th, 2010 @4:46 pm
Thanks Woody. Perhaps we should start our own club of lifelong biking, chilled out enlightened ones. Ha,ha.
June 5th, 2010 @8:25 pm
I cant believe I have to spell this out.
Thinking you know what you’re doing only to find out you don’t –taking a few pedestrians down in the process = stupid asshole.
Possessing some degree of skill and bragging about it while flying in the face of logic. Logic that only become significant after the fact –counter-argued with a change of subject = smug asshole. (see: scum bag)
Pretending that fashion or sex-appeal has not informed ones reckless behavior = major asshole
Using self-deprecating examples of foolish behavior as evidence of hard won expertise = douche bag
Developing an argument using narrow, circumstantial evidence as incontrovertible facts = jackass
Poser who rambles on about gear ratio or the quality of the bits = faggot
Snotty quips about the color scheme or angle of the seat = Faggot who can lick my balls
Where is Eric and Snipertoe when you need them. This site is getting boring.
June 6th, 2010 @6:34 am
again hard to argue with the man.but let it go JQ.never argue with a fool,people might get confused.The too cool for brake crowd is also too dumb to change.Use your energy to pedal.enjoy
June 6th, 2010 @11:55 am
Well said Sloman, it’s like yelling at a teen to pick up their crap off the floor and clean some dishes and put them away. JQ you must be a lawyer. enjoy as Sloman would say.
June 6th, 2010 @2:49 pm
i ride a brakeless freewheel unicycle while wearing a tshirt with a picture of an asshole on it and the word ME underneath
June 6th, 2010 @5:01 pm
No creo ! post it .
June 25th, 2010 @10:11 pm
hi my names anthony and i ride brakeless:)
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